How about that science which seeks the truth and also puts to beneficial use the truths learned?
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
I never ever thought NASA was lying about anything (though on some particulars I thought they might be in error). I don't have cognitive dissonance in regards to NASA.
Are you a denier of some science? You seem to deny a number of matters which are widely held, including being taught in our educational systems (including university courses) as established scientific fact.
I trust science and science books (including the college text books I have) and science educational shows on TV and what scientists say about science. I have no doubt that rovers are on Mars and that the Voyager space probes are now out beyond Pluto.For the most part, the only energy a rocket ship needs to get to Mars (from Earth) is that needed to achieve escape velocity from Earth.
I study books to learn. Since early childhood I have highly valued the knowledge contained in educational books. Should I disbelieve what was taught to me in grade school, high school, and university, and from the self study I did of science (including from college textbooks)? [I graduated from high school (a polytechnic high school) with honors (3.30 GPA on a scale in which 4.0 is the highest GPA possible) and I graduated from university with a solid B average (3.03 GPA).] If so, wouldn't that mean that high school diplomas and university Bachelor of Science degrees are worthless and a waste of time to obtain? Despite having been a believing JW I attended university and obtained a 4-year degree, namely a Bachelor of Science Degree (though in Business Administration). By the way I was appointed a JW ministerial servant while attending university full time.
A number of science books I own, including a college textbook on astronomy say that NASA has landed rovers on Mars and they show photos of one or more rovers on Mars. Do you have a negative view of college education?
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
After doing a search on the internet about Mars possibly having sand dunes it now seems to me that Mars does have such and at least one rover saw such.
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
Indoubtbigtime, you are welcome.
Here are some more thoughts for you to consider.
I notice you said the following. "I know in Lloyd evens recent video he visits the science museum and shows loads of fake skulls half ape half human and he says they have found the real ones but this is a lie." What exactly do you mean by "fake skulls" in that quote? Do you mean the skulls are fraudulent? Or do you mean they are replicas (copies) of real fossilized skulls? Or do you mean something else, and if so, what?
Do you think that NASA actually requires astronauts to be Freemasons or have a degree in Freemasonry? Is so why do you think such? How would being a Freemason help them to do their work as astronauts? Likewise how would having a degree in scuba diving help them to do their work as astronauts? I hope you really don't mean you believe what is shown in the picture which you posted to page 6 of this topic thread. But if you do believe what depicted in picture I would like to know your reasons for such.
I notice you also said the following. "That Mars river has supposedly been on Mars for over a decade running on solar panels. Do you think if it was on earth in the Sahara desert it would not have broken down by now? Just think about it.?" By "river" in that quote I think you meant "rover". There is a big difference about the environment of the Sahara and that of where the rovers are on Mars. The atmosphere in the Sahara (and elsewhere on Earth at ground level) is about 100 times denser ('thicker') than on Mars. In other words the atmosphere on Mars is only about 1 percent as dense ('thick') as that on Earth (including in the Sahara). As a result winds on Mars exert only about 1 percent of the force (and of the momentum) as winds on Earth moving at the same velocity (or speed). As result much more wind blown dust would be impacting the rover if it were in the Sahara than on Mars (if the air speed was the same for both locations). Also part of the Sahara desert consists of sand dune and winds cause the sand dunes to shift position. If the rover was in that environment it would get buried by sand. But as far as I know Mars doesn't have sand dunes, and even if it does NASA has not sent their rovers to any areas having sand dunes.Also, unlike automobiles (other than parked ones) the rover moves extremely slowly and thus in 10 years the rover has far less mileage on it than a automobile driven on Earth. I thus am not surprised that the rover (which moves really slow) would be able to be in operation (without maintenance) for ten years, unlike and automobile (without maintenance) driven by a human rider.
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
Indoubtbigtime, I noticed you said the following about yourself. "I’m constantly searching trying to get closer to the truth. I’m also very prepared to admit my former beliefs were wrong if something truly convincing comes along." I think that is a very good attitude and course of action which you have.
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
"The new missions to the moon here in the 2020s had to test the effects of humans being so far away from earth because" NASA plans to create a permanent base on the moon and thus have people on the moon for extended periods of time, not just on the moon for a few days or so.
Where do you get the idea that a lot of people think NASA lied. I've only read (and only on blog posts) of a relatively few people thinking that, and to me their ideas about such are extremely nutty. Sometimes when I read people expressing such ideas I think that surely they are joking, instead of believing what they are saying. I also thought It was probably far fewer making the posts, but using multiple user names in order to try to sway public opinion. I thought maybe most of them were getting paid by politically conservative organizations to make such posts, such as to get NASA's budget reduced.
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
Indoubtbigtime, I am stunned that you have a number of beliefs regarding NASA which you claim to have. Wow.
Regarding NASA's moon landings, they were said to have happened from 1969 into the early 1970s. NASA does not say they all happened in the 1960s. I remember that when I was a very young child I watched one of the moon landings and saw the astronauts step out onto the moon and walk upon it. I saw it in a live television national network news broadcast (and thus from ABC, CBS, or NBC news). [But the news network probably picked up the broadcast from the moon with the aide of NASA relaying a reception of it to the network.] That left a tremendous impression upon me.
Regarding solar eclipses, if by matching up perfectly you mean in regards to alignment, then I agree with you. But I am sure you also know that many solar eclipses are not total eclipses, but instead only partial eclipses and thus the partial eclipses don't line up perfectly. If you mean the moon is just the right size to block out the sun during an eclipse, neither much bigger than needed nor too small, then I disagree that such has always been the case during the entire time the moon has existed.
Regarding the pictures of Mars I am totally shocked that you believe what you do about it. I don't see how anyone could disbelieve that such pictures are true and that NASA lies about Mars, unless they reject so much of modern science and of modern technology. Is it that so many of the pictures of Mars look a lot like that of dry desserts of parts of Earth (but without any plants), other than that the Mars color pictures show the landscape as being red or reddish? Is that why you think the pictures of Mars are really of Earth through a red filter?
Regarding the missing link between ape and men, there were none with features exactly half way between modern day apes and men in every feature of a skull. That is because of number of things. Humans did not evolve from any of the modern day apes, instead humans evolved from a long extinct species of apes. That is what evolutionists say, and Charles Darwin never said humans evolved from a modern species ape. Likewise to my knowledge no scientist of evolution ever said humans evolved form a modern species of ape. For example, to my knowledge they never said we evolved from a common chimpanzee, a bonobo (also called a pygmy chimpanzee), a gorilla, or an orangutan. Instead the evolutionist scientists say (and Charles Darwin said) we share a common ancestor with the modern apes. Furthermore, for at least the past several decades they say that some skull features evolved before other skull features. At a result there was never a skull in which all of it features were exactly half way between an ape (with a modern species or an extinct species) and a modern human skull. Likewise other parts of the skeleton evolved towards human-like features before other parts did.
Regarding other types of animals, it is true that many types alive today look exactly the same as ones which lived long ago (including ones which scientists say lived tens of millions of years ago, and in some cases maybe hundreds of millions ago, as determined by their fossils). Some types of life have not evolved much in the past many millions of years, but others have (or as a result of evolution have distant descendant species which are very different from them).
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
Correction of typo: In my prior post when I wrote "... between out species ..." I meant to say "... between our species ...".
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
Indoubtbigtime, the farther an object is away the smaller it looks. Thus though the moon is much smaller than the Sun it looks like it is same size from the Sun in our modern times. But yes I am saying that "it’s a coincidence that this time in history they match up" apparently perfectly. But in the times of the non-avian dinosaurs tens of millions of years ago the moon looked considerably bigger to the animals living then than the moon looks today. Furthermore, yes there will be a time when the moon and Sun won't look like they have the same size, but without the aid of a telescope it will be a long time (probably 100s of thousands of years from now) before anyone could detect an apparent increase in the size from the present size. But even now when people look at a total eclipse of the sun they see a halo behind the moon, thus even now the moon doesn't block out all of the Sun's light.
Decades ago during one of NASA's moon landing NASA astronauts place mirrors on the moon. After that NASA began shining LASER beams from Earth to the moon and they timed hour long it takes for the LASER light to bounce back and reach Earth. As a result they documented that the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth.
You are free to reject what the scientists say, but in this matter I am convinced the scientists are correct. I am also convinced that they are correct in saying we humans have evolved from nonhuman animals, including that some fish from hundreds of millions of years ago are some of our very distant ancestors. But evolution is not entirely due to chance. It is also due to the action of laws of nature and due to what Darwin called natural selection. I don't believe in Intelligent Design creationism (though I can understand why many people do, perhaps in part because I wanted to be an engineer and an inventor, and thus a designer).
Have you read any science books promoting evolution which state the evidence and arguments which the scientists mention in support of evolution? If not, then I encourage you read such. The WT's portrayal of evolution (and what evolutionist scientists say about it) has been very dishonest. A great many of the WT's quotes of the scientists misrepresent the meaning of what the scientists said. I know that because I looked up the sources of numerous quotes by the WT of scientists pertaining to evolution and found such to be the case. I read the context of the quotes in the original source materials (such as books by scientists, science journal articles written by scientists, science popular magazine articles, and news articles which include interview of scientists). I have purchased a number of those publications and made photocopies of multiple pages from others. I have evaluated what they say and as a result I know that evolution is a reality.
There are also books by evolutionist scientists (both biologists and geneticists) which specifically disprove Intelligent Design. I encourage you read at least one of them also.
The WT wants you to avoid reading those science books and science articles which make the case for evolution, and against Intelligent Design (and against other types of creationism). Are you going to do what the WT wants you to do on that matter, or are you going to find and read those scientific sources and see if evolution is true?
You say there is no missing link, but what characteristics do you think a missing link would have? From what I have seen some of the missing links have been found, or a least fossils of some species which were very closely related to some of the missing links. Homo erectus or Homo ergaster (depending on the definition one uses for those species) was an intermediate species (and thus a missing link) between out species (Homo sapiens) and some extinct species of Australopithecus and of some extinct species of nonhuman ape. Both Homo erectus or Homo ergaster were human but they were not of our species of human and they went extinct a long time ago.
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170
Staying in physically for all the benefits
by Indoubtbigtime ini wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.
also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .
there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.
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Disillusioned JW
I agree that the families are probably aware of what the PIMOs think are concealed, at least in regards to some matters, but in many cases the families probably don't know for sure.